The largest employer in the United States is Walmart. The second largest is the United States Postal Service (USPS).
One is a private sector, for-profit corporation; the other is a government non-profit entity. One is non-union, and the other is unionized. One returns profits to its owners, the other must be subsidized by its owners. One pays an average wage of $11.75/hr with limited benefits, and the other pays an average of $24/hr with generous benefits. One is younger than I am; the other is older than the nation.
There are 142,000 products in the average Walmart Superstore. Each day, 2.1 million people go to work in 9,749 Walmart stores in 14 countries. There is no government Czar telling them what to do, and none of them know me from Adam. So what I am about to tell you is really amazing – check this out.
I never told any one of those 2.1 million employees where I would be today, or what time I would arrive, or which of those 142,000 products I would buy; it is a little ninja test of the capitalist system I run every so often for Quality Control to make sure that markets still work. The odds against them guessing which products I will choose to buy and from which store are astronomical, and yet they nailed it.
Kingsford, Michigan; 5:45 PM; Colgate Cavity Protection toothpaste and M&M Peanuts. Scary, man - I’m still shaking. It’s like they put a chip in my head or something. And they do it every time; way better than Chriss Angel.
Now let’s give contestant #2 a try. The United States Postal Service has had over 200 years to perfect its craft. They have only 28 products. Each day 700,000 people go to work in only one country. They deliver my mail to one of only two possible locations once a day, six days a week and they get to pick the time.
It’s the government, so I had to dumb-down the test quite a bit to even give them a shot. I gave them my location months in advance, let them pick the service, pick the day, pick the time, and pick the parcels. There is only 1/3 as many of them to align their efforts and they make twice as much as the Walmart folks, and for the 30th day in a row, they forwarded my mail to the wrong address.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between markets and government.
Behold the wonder that is the Walmart. Do any of those hundreds of millions of people from all over the world who designed, built, transported, and merchandised those 142,000 products to their 9,749 stores know or care what I want or why I want it? Why do they want me to have healthy gums and no chocolate mess more than they want to go fishing with their kids?
The answer, of course, is that they did not make anything for me; they made it for profit. Profit is the reason that I can buy generic medicine for $4, a wastebasket for $1.69, 2 dozen golf balls for $9.49, and get my tires rotated while I buy groceries. I have no idea if the person(s) who made the Garden Weasel is black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, disabled, old, young, liberal or conservative. Nor do I care, and neither does he or she; profit makes us do what bumper stickers cannot – coexist.
He or she is working at the best opportunity available to them, and I am buying at the best opportunity available to me. We both decided what is best for us on our own without coercion. Two families have optimized our benefit in voluntary and peaceful exchange with each other. Profit does that every day without breaking a sweat; no government has ever pulled it off, not even at gunpoint.
It gets a lot better. A person of modest means can buy high quality goods beyond the reach of the richest people in the world just one generation ago. Moms who grew up wearing hand-me-downs can buy new clothes for all of their own children. People who never had to do that probably can’t appreciate the anxiety of that first day of school when you have on your brother’s stuff all patched and darned and rolled up; or the relief when you discover that most every other kid is in the same boat. And now kids worry if their smart phone battery will run out before the Justin Beiber download is finished.
Profit did that. Profit delivers luxury to the poor; government delivers promises to the poor. That is the difference. That is the thing that the haters of free market capitalism don’t grasp. There is nothing capable of replacing it - nothing.
Of all of our governmental agencies, our military is the most able, the most accomplished, and the most admired. With an almost unlimited budget, the most advanced logistics system of any government entity anywhere in the world, and the most advanced weapons to force compliance, they still run out of socks in the combat zone.
Do they ever run out of socks at the Walmart? There’s your moment of clarity.
The next time you walk into a Walmart, take a minute to look around; think about all the millions and millions of people from all over the world who made the miracle that is the Walmart come together just for you. All it would take is for one of them – just one – to not do their job, and the product you came in to buy will not be on the shelf. Now grab your cart and go see if any of them failed.
Not only did they pass my ninja QC test and deliver a decent return to their shareholders, but Walmart also gave $170 million of its profits to charities here in the United States alone last year. The USPS lost money and had nothing to give to charities; in fact, it asked for a subsidy from its owners and proposed cutting back service in exchange.
Lower quality, higher prices, unreliable, unsustainable, uncharitable. And with the benevolent government as the employer and a union workforce, surely the USPS would be a perfect socialist utopian workplace, right? No, the term “going postal” has become slang for violent workplace rage.
And they say capitalism doesn’t work?
And they also insist that we free marketers need the government to step in and fix us? What can government possibly teach markets? What could Walmart possibly learn from USPS about giving me what I want, when I want it, where I want it, and at a price I am willing to pay? Why should I expect people who go postal to protect me from the greeter?
Forget what rubbish you have been taught by your professors about failed capitalism; go teach yourself about its miracles. Walk in and trust what you see with your own eyes – and behold the wonder that is the Walmart.
“Moment Of Clarity” is a weekly commentary by Libertarian writer and speaker Tim Nerenz, Ph.D. Visit Tim’s website www.timnerenz.com to find your moment and order Tim’s new book, “BRING IT!”
One is a private sector, for-profit corporation; the other is a government non-profit entity. One is non-union, and the other is unionized. One returns profits to its owners, the other must be subsidized by its owners. One pays an average wage of $11.75/hr with limited benefits, and the other pays an average of $24/hr with generous benefits. One is younger than I am; the other is older than the nation.
There are 142,000 products in the average Walmart Superstore. Each day, 2.1 million people go to work in 9,749 Walmart stores in 14 countries. There is no government Czar telling them what to do, and none of them know me from Adam. So what I am about to tell you is really amazing – check this out.
I never told any one of those 2.1 million employees where I would be today, or what time I would arrive, or which of those 142,000 products I would buy; it is a little ninja test of the capitalist system I run every so often for Quality Control to make sure that markets still work. The odds against them guessing which products I will choose to buy and from which store are astronomical, and yet they nailed it.
Kingsford, Michigan; 5:45 PM; Colgate Cavity Protection toothpaste and M&M Peanuts. Scary, man - I’m still shaking. It’s like they put a chip in my head or something. And they do it every time; way better than Chriss Angel.
Now let’s give contestant #2 a try. The United States Postal Service has had over 200 years to perfect its craft. They have only 28 products. Each day 700,000 people go to work in only one country. They deliver my mail to one of only two possible locations once a day, six days a week and they get to pick the time.
It’s the government, so I had to dumb-down the test quite a bit to even give them a shot. I gave them my location months in advance, let them pick the service, pick the day, pick the time, and pick the parcels. There is only 1/3 as many of them to align their efforts and they make twice as much as the Walmart folks, and for the 30th day in a row, they forwarded my mail to the wrong address.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the difference between markets and government.
Behold the wonder that is the Walmart. Do any of those hundreds of millions of people from all over the world who designed, built, transported, and merchandised those 142,000 products to their 9,749 stores know or care what I want or why I want it? Why do they want me to have healthy gums and no chocolate mess more than they want to go fishing with their kids?
The answer, of course, is that they did not make anything for me; they made it for profit. Profit is the reason that I can buy generic medicine for $4, a wastebasket for $1.69, 2 dozen golf balls for $9.49, and get my tires rotated while I buy groceries. I have no idea if the person(s) who made the Garden Weasel is black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, disabled, old, young, liberal or conservative. Nor do I care, and neither does he or she; profit makes us do what bumper stickers cannot – coexist.
He or she is working at the best opportunity available to them, and I am buying at the best opportunity available to me. We both decided what is best for us on our own without coercion. Two families have optimized our benefit in voluntary and peaceful exchange with each other. Profit does that every day without breaking a sweat; no government has ever pulled it off, not even at gunpoint.
It gets a lot better. A person of modest means can buy high quality goods beyond the reach of the richest people in the world just one generation ago. Moms who grew up wearing hand-me-downs can buy new clothes for all of their own children. People who never had to do that probably can’t appreciate the anxiety of that first day of school when you have on your brother’s stuff all patched and darned and rolled up; or the relief when you discover that most every other kid is in the same boat. And now kids worry if their smart phone battery will run out before the Justin Beiber download is finished.
Profit did that. Profit delivers luxury to the poor; government delivers promises to the poor. That is the difference. That is the thing that the haters of free market capitalism don’t grasp. There is nothing capable of replacing it - nothing.
Of all of our governmental agencies, our military is the most able, the most accomplished, and the most admired. With an almost unlimited budget, the most advanced logistics system of any government entity anywhere in the world, and the most advanced weapons to force compliance, they still run out of socks in the combat zone.
Do they ever run out of socks at the Walmart? There’s your moment of clarity.
The next time you walk into a Walmart, take a minute to look around; think about all the millions and millions of people from all over the world who made the miracle that is the Walmart come together just for you. All it would take is for one of them – just one – to not do their job, and the product you came in to buy will not be on the shelf. Now grab your cart and go see if any of them failed.
Not only did they pass my ninja QC test and deliver a decent return to their shareholders, but Walmart also gave $170 million of its profits to charities here in the United States alone last year. The USPS lost money and had nothing to give to charities; in fact, it asked for a subsidy from its owners and proposed cutting back service in exchange.
Lower quality, higher prices, unreliable, unsustainable, uncharitable. And with the benevolent government as the employer and a union workforce, surely the USPS would be a perfect socialist utopian workplace, right? No, the term “going postal” has become slang for violent workplace rage.
And they say capitalism doesn’t work?
And they also insist that we free marketers need the government to step in and fix us? What can government possibly teach markets? What could Walmart possibly learn from USPS about giving me what I want, when I want it, where I want it, and at a price I am willing to pay? Why should I expect people who go postal to protect me from the greeter?
Forget what rubbish you have been taught by your professors about failed capitalism; go teach yourself about its miracles. Walk in and trust what you see with your own eyes – and behold the wonder that is the Walmart.
“Moment Of Clarity” is a weekly commentary by Libertarian writer and speaker Tim Nerenz, Ph.D. Visit Tim’s website www.timnerenz.com to find your moment and order Tim’s new book, “BRING IT!”
63 comments:
Great column. Three things make the military the ablest arm of government: 1)Motivation (it is an all volunteer force); 2) Selfless sacrifice - mission first is part of the culture; 3) No unions to divide loyalties.
When I watch our mail carrier skip a mailbox because someone parked a little too close to it I can't help but wonder what happened to the pride they used to proclaim in regard to delivering the mail in all sorts of weather, etc. Sadly, in the time it takes my carrier to write "mailbox blocked" and toss my mail to the back of the truck for return to the post office, she could have stpped out out of the tuck for a moment and put it in the box. Probably a regulation against that though...
Sigh...
Sad indeed.
What a nice change to hear someone say something positive about Walmart. I know it helps my family survive. I am not the person who can afford to buy all local and all organic. It is about feeding a family of 9!
I love your perspective. If we could only infuse common sense into the American mind set.
Pity the columnist didn't take the time to describe how Wallmart's cheap products and prices are possible. China's human rights violations are terrible reminders that products from other parts of the world stand no chance of being competitive in Wallyworld..
Oh you can go there and shop for anything almost and quite cheaply but at what expense? Try finding anything made in this great nation of ours and you wil be ashamed. Mr. Walton and his family will surely
not tell you how many American owned businesses their Megastores have closed.Grocery stores, clothing shops, pharmacies and more. You won't hear any of that as long as the Waltons continue to remain on America's richest lists. I refuse to give in to thier Capitalist version of paradise.
We all the horror stories that Walmart has done to our country however many families need a place like Walmart where they can support their families by buying inexpensive products. Also Wallmart is itself not evil, another way to look at it Walmart has a capitalist system to make money and millions of people go to walmart for their daily needs. If Walmart didn't serve its clientele in terms of saving money Walmart would not be keeping up with their promises and busuness goals and they themselves will go under. We can also say the old shops didn't carry on with the times and didn't adapt very well. Just look at Kmart once the king of department stores not being killed by Walmart and Target. Or just look at the history of the Walmart founder who used to work for Franklin stores and was a board member. They had an opportunity to become like a Walmart but they said it wouldn't work. Now look at Walmart today and where Franklin is.
How can anyone be nice when one listens to the jibberish you are peddling to America. How in Gods green earth can you compare Walmart to the postal service, not that I would defend either. Wal-Mart employes slave labor in third world countries, drives thousands of small business owners out of business using unfair trade practices and taking advantage of underdeveloped countries that allow them to polute, have no labor laws, care nothing for their workers, etc, etc. You would go broke peddling this clap trap if it weren't for dim witted morons who listen to meaningless diatribes like this one. Are you getting desperate for material? This article isn't suitable for mouthwash.
Jenn it helps your family survive while killing small businesses all over America. Are you like all the rest who just say I don't care as long as I get mine? Walmart employes slave labor, child labor, unfair trade policies, and is helping to distroy the American small business man. Think about that next time you buy foreign made textiles on the cheap at Walmart. They are responsible for the loss of over 4 million textile jobs in the south east alone in the last fifteen years. That's a lot of families.
Anonymous, if we could infuse some common sense into Americans they would make Walmart disappear. WOW where do you people come from? Are you for real, or do you just look no further than the tip of your wallet.
David G, finally a voice of reason, someone that spends time in the real world instead of playing vidio games, watching Monday night football and arc I bunker, and going to Walmart instead of supporting American small business. Thank you for your thought full post.
Keithh h. What? Are you for real, we all know the horror stories, but what the heck, as long as your getting yours it doesn't matter? War is hell, thousands of our kids get maimed and killed, but what the heck, look at the companies making tanks and guns to sell to anyone that will buy them even our enemies, wow that's great. Keith, listen to yourself make excuses for a monolithic monopolistic Mega corp that makes their money from the greed of cheap American consumers at the pain and suffering of those who they abuse.
Get a life.
When you watch the Mail carrier, no wonder your anonymous. I wouldn't want anyone to know I wrote that narrow minded clap trap. How about all the associates that Walmart supports with health care supported by tax payer dollars. Wow you people are nuts.
Just goes to prove the things and pictures of people of Walmart are true. Bet you were in a few of them. With this kind of comment, Moment of clarity is sure to maintain it's following no matter what type of rubbish he publishes. Your all living proof.
I'm just a little astonished at the vitriol here. Folks, Tim's essay had nothing to do with promoting Walmart. If you're not happy with that example, then substitute the name Target.
Isn't the point here that government will never be able to do anything at the level at which private enterprise is capable of doing it? And by the way, just for the sake of argument, those private businesses that closed because they were "overwhelmed" by Walmart are small in number on the grand scale of things and, truth be told, were only casualties of the natural evoloution of capitalism.
The vast majority of small businesses which have been forced to close their doors have been victims of either mismanagement over taxation and over regulation of everything by and incompetent power mad government gone completely off the rails.
Tim
You did it again! Great piece of work. Thank you.
@tprtloyal:
please provide specific data to support your claim that Walmart pays less than MARKET WAGES here in the US or in other countries. I know you cannot be inferring that they should be required to pay MORE than market wages. That does not fit their business model. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to either shop there OR work there.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and each month 117 million people disagree with yours, @tprtyloyal. The miracle of markets - and if you don't like Walmart, then pick the mercados of Latin America, which I personally prefer, is that the profit motive guides millions of people who don't know each other to do things that benefit each other and nothing - nothing - has been devised that does it as well. I'm not for or against Walmart, I am for choice. I have no desire to make you angry, and if what I write does so, perhaps you should consider reading something else. That is what freedom is all about.
My father talks of the time when supermarkets appeared on the grocery scene. Just like today, those that don't understand free market principles screamed and hollered about how they were putting the local butcher, baker, produce markets, out of business.
Tprtloyal, get a life? Wow you need to grow up and get a life and learn what the article is about. How about you leave your hate filled hippie wannabe carcus in the 1960's where it belongs. This is America you don't have to shop or work anywhere you don't want to. How about you go out picket some more with your lefty friends who obviously don't understand reality. Obviously you feel you can push your crap on others yet nobody is telling you to shop there. Like it or not more people shop at Walmart and make it a profitable business so obviously you hate is not filled by the masses and you obviously don't have a family on a fixed income and know how difficult it is to get by. If all these past companies was so good they will still be around today, hell Smart and Target still is. Obviously reality shows that Walmart has a better model and the masses agree, a perfect example how the market chooses.
Great job again Dr. Tim Nerenz. You did a great job articulating the American system of capitalism and market. Sad this hater has a reading problem and choses to attack the good people who have a life.
"Wal-Mart employes slave labor in third world countries, etc." tprtloyal, I think you're missing the key word in that sentence: EMPLOYS. How is it that you're the judge of whether or not that EMPLOYMENT is slave labor? Perhaps to that person, that EMPLOYMENT means more food for their kids, or a chance to get some medicine. I find it rather insulting that you think that you're so much more intelligent that you should decide who employs whom, and where the employer builds their manufacturing facilities. Perhaps that EMPLOYER has a positive affect on the local economy, but hey...If Your Highness has decreed that the wage is 'slave labor' then that means that it should be shut down, and all the workers become unemployed. Your pretentiousness is showing, princess.
I love strawmen... They're so easy to set on fire.
"And they say capitalism doesn’t work?"
Exactly who says this, Dr. Tim? Who specifically is saying "capitalism doesn't work?"
Nouriel Roubini? (http://bit.ly/AmcXmk)
Simon Johnson? {http://bloom.bg/wtYFS1)
David "Reaganomics" Stockman? (http://bit.ly/whphZz)
These economists (and many others) have questioned the way capitalism has evolved over the last 20 years. But not one of them is suggesting an alternative system (socialism, anarchy, etc.). What they ARE suggesting is a return to a more regulated market system that prevents the asset boom & bust cycle we've been living for the past several years.
As for the USPS, a lot of nonsense has been written about the state of the USPS and the reasons for it's struggles. But it really comes down to one piece of legislation. On December 20th, 2006, Congress passed The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA) - H.R. 6407 which inserted a "poison pill" into the USPS.
From WikiPedia (http://bit.ly/yjgDhl):
"PAEA also obligates the USPS to prefund 75-year's worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span — a requirement that no other government organization is subject to. As a consequence, it has been charged that the US Postal Services budget crisis of 2011 is, in essence, an artificial one."
Without the PAEA, the USPS would be well in the black. On September 21st, Ralph Nader sent a letter to congress detailing the destruction of the USPS looming due to PAEA (http://bit.ly/x51E0o)
"By June 2011, the USPS saw a total net deficit of $19.5 billion, $12.7 billion of which was borrowed money from Treasury (leaving just $2.3 billion left until the USPS hits its statutory borrowing limit of $15 billion). This $19.5 billion deficit almost exactly matches the $20.95 billion the USPS made in prepayments to the fund for future retiree health care benefits by June 2011. If the prepayments required under PAEA we re never enacted into law, the USPS would not have a net
deficiency of nearly $20 billion, but instead be in the black by at least $1.5 billion"
Without having the time to peruse the comments, only one thing to say. Bingo! This comparison is the grand slam at the end of the World Series...
Our beloved big government took steps to ensure this economy never sank to the levels of the great depression, but just like everything government does it fails. Muttmutt, do you really want them to create even more regulation to prevent something they said would never happen? Guess what it did happen. You can try to prevent every drop in markets but the truth is there will be a drop no matter how much regulation you put in. The great depression lasted 7 years longer because of FDR's regulations. History shows in times like this, less regulation is better as in the 1920's when Harding and Coolidge lowered taxes and regulation and allowed Americans to innovate and work. We created the refrigerator, radio, air conditioning and many other services we take for granted today. We need to do what we always did, innovate, but we need to get government out of our throats so the business climate is more friendly and easier for forecast future years.
I am not for or against Walmart but I work for a company that does business with them and they have an audit system that investigates their suppliers to help guard against child labor and such. The threat of being cast aside as a supplier helps to control their business practices. Walmart is very concerned about the perception of the public they serve.
muttmutt: regarding the postal service, isn't it normal accounting for business to calculate the NPV (net present value) of future liabilities, such as retirement benefits, and to set aside funds for such promises? If the USPS wasn't doing this prior to 2006, then it sounds like they were engaged in that oh-so-common behavior of government, making big promises today without any plan in place to pay for said promises, no?
To the anit-walmart mental midgets:
As long as consumers have choices cheap products will be available from other countries like China. When US consumers realize that quality is more important they will buy American or Japan made goods. Choice still rules.
Muttmutt you big dope. the key comment you made, from my perspective, was "But not one of them is suggesting an alternative system (socialism, anarchy, etc.). What they ARE suggesting is a return to a more regulated market system that prevents the asset boom & bust cycle we've been living for the past several years." So, they are not socialists, but they want a regulated economy????? What do you think socialism is? Boom and bust will always be with us. But at least with Capitalism, we have a boom element to it. Most socialist societies are bogged down in continual bust. What has the government ever done that is more efficient than the private sector? Great column Tim.
Jake: The question isn't whether the USPS should have to fund their pension & healthcare adequately, they should. Like any public or private enterprise that makes a commitment to it's employees, the resources should be there when they're needed.
No, instead, the question is whether they should have to sock away 75 years worth of payments in 10 years that's at issue. No other agency labors under that heavy burdon. Why do you suppose Congress did that? What motivation could they have to create a Naomi Klein-like shock to the USPS system? Perhaps because it has the largest and most vocal unionized public-sector workforce in the country? That might have something to do with it. Force a crisis to break the union. Inject the poison pill with a long time-delay on activation and watch the fireworks!
Quite clever, actually.
Steverino: "Socialism - is an economic system characterized by social ownership or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy, and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises."
Nowhere did I advocate "social ownership" of the means of production. If you're going to use words, you should know what they mean.
But you might want to check out the cover of last week's issue of The Economist. There is a series of articles on the rise of State Capitalism in the developing world. Fascinating stuff.
But for the record, regulation of capitalism does not equal socialism.
Muttmutt, regulation of capitalism may not technically equal socialism, but it is a step in the wrong direction towards socialism. Government regulation in the economy is simply the government doing things that could be done better by the private sector. There are some private entities out there whose job is to "regulate" capitalism. ISO9000 is a set of standards that is difficult to attain, yet more and more companies are striving for a certification. UL is another example. The FAA is an example of the government regulating an industry when a private entity that does the same thing would do it better. If there were no such thing as regulated capitalism, there would be no such thing as crony capitalism, and there would be no such thing as a lobbyist.
Keith Brandt: Slippery-slope arguments are a slippery-slope. There is no logic to inevitability. But that's a debate for another thread.
Most folks around the world want more regulation, not less.
"More business regulations.
That is what survey after survey around the globe shows that the world’s populations wants. Despite a relentless propaganda campaign of misinformation, fabricated data and false narratives, the public has not been fooled by the 1%. The best efforts of a well funded group of ideologues — Free Market absolutists, anti-Democracy and Randians — these pro-corporate radicals has not yet succeeded in fooling all of the world’s population all of the time.
How do we know this? A 25 country survey last year by Edelman. They asked the question: “When it comes to government regulation of business, do you think that your government regulates business too much, not enough or about the right amount?”
Most of the world thinks there is insufficient regulation across all industries. The United States, where 31% there was too much regulation. Ironic considering we originated the global financial crisis. The next closest country was Germany at 28%."
In the most recent Bloomberg Global Poll of their 1200 most important clients agree. When asked to rate the statement "Banks are in need of regulation to prevent them from being too big to fail," 47% said the statement was true and 38% said the statement had some truth to it. Only 14% of these super-rich investors felt that the statement was false.
Muttmutt, is more people wanted you to walk off a very high bridge would you do it? A lot of people agreed with Hitler, did that make Hitler right?
Your grade school theories are something that should be left there. We do not elect people to do what most people want, because what most people want normally are not educated in economics! Most people do not know how business works. Doesn't know marketing or the markets.
I know in the best decade in American history, less regulation and lower taxes showed it was the recipe to get more people in business investing and more people working. With more people working there would be more tax payers.
The problem today, you lefties think raising taxes alone with fix everything and when that doesn't work you compound your error with more regulations that in the end are aimed at costing the private sector 100 times more to the government, and leaving the customers bone dry. So therefore, that is the error of taxes and regulation, you need to give the private sector the reason and confidence to go out and invest. Until we get more tax payers this country will continue to go down. We do not need higher taxes because the people who can pay taxes are just going to hold on to their money tighter and rightfully so. They didn't become wealthy to allow anybody swindle them. More you tax them and more they tighten on their wallets more they decide to move out of this country which leads to more layoffs and more people collecting unemployment. More people collecting unemployment with less people paying taxes.
Please do the math, it is not that very hard.
keithh1981: You are amusingly out of your depth.
muttmutt: Amusingly coming from someone who has no idea of the term socialism or the concept of explaining yourself. One that cannot explain his own interests is a man in confusion.
But then again, all you lefties do is ignore the facts, never mind you you been proven wrong every time. All we hear from you is higher taxes and government higher regulation is mainly wanted by people that do not know basic economics.
You fail to look at the regulation itself that are being imposed. Obviously there are having a negative effect not a positive effect but people like you think more regulation would be better and done by people like Obama who you like as claimed in your profile would be better. Your lefties always had this problem and never learned from it. keep practicing a failed practice over and over hoping for a change. The problem is nothing will change unless you wise up.
That is why good people like Dr. Tim Nerenz can start up as a minimum wage worker and work his way to the top of the company and be well off financially vs people like majority of America who is struggling to get by. The people that can adapt and understand life's curves are the ones normally to succeed. Why you think majority of these people who want all this regulation are coming from unsuccessful lives? Why should we take this advise from people who are bitter at people like Tim Nerenz who obviously has the skills and mindset to take advantage of the opportunity we all are given in this country? Why should he be taxed more and regulated more when he already pays more taxes than you and me combined? More you tax Tim, the more he is protect his investments, and less chances of his opening job opportunities for others looking for a job.
I asked you one simple thing, and was to explain your own interests in your own profile. You cannot even do that because it doesn't fit your talking points and you know you are in a comment section not tailored to your lefty big government and regulation beliefs. You are into foreign affairs yet fail to see the failure of your beloved socialism in Europe. You think replicating a failed system would work over here for whatever reason. Our government has failed in everything they touched, health care, education, Amtrak etc, yet you want more bureaucrats to create more regulation and fail to realize when our government is taking over college tuition's loans, GM, health care etc, that is what always happens in socialism. Governments always take over things they need to control. You cannot be a complete centralized government if you allow private industry to run the stuff that is best suited for them.
This country was always the most powerful when we allowed our markets to make money, innovate and create opportunities for others. You really see our government doing that with the taxes and high regulation we have? Have you noticed in the last 20 years our major companies have left our country leaving millions of jobs gone overseas because it is more competitive and cheaper to do business in China and Mexico? How do you not see this with all your articles you read?
I find it amusing you fail to understand this, explain yourself and ignore the obvious facts. You expect us to provide you with links but that just tells us you are lazy and can care less.
It is ok though, people who support Obama normally think this way, and that is people like you tend to blame people who are successful. Instead of questioning how they got there and trying to repeat their success you just want to tax and regulate them so you can sit on your computer and expect links to be given to you. You cry life is unfair and want to take from others that do. I do not know who told you life was fair but obviously you have a wrong teacher. I will tell you this, Tim didn't get where he is today expecting something from somebody else. He did it himself and was man enough to ask.
keithh1981: Who are you arguing with? Because it sure isn't me.
Now you are not into debating? Um, I thought that is what you were here for?
It shows I am right. Good day.
This blog: http://themassesareangry.blogspot.com/ is the blog from muttmutt's profile which again shows his ideacy and beliefs in attacks anything small government because of his big government agenda.
He calls tea party people minions yet I would like to know what he thinks of the Occupy movement which is example of our society is its lowest form. Occupys has has hundreds of arrests, rape charges and violence, all going against corporations yet they wear and use name brand items every day.
Tea Party has had no arrests, in fact no police is actually needed at a tea party event, unlike these occupy fools who cannot even stand up for their beliefs in the cold, majority of America and Wisconsin, largely conservative, have no problem braving the cold standing up for what we believe in.
Another site he often goes to is: http://accidental-lit.blogspot.com/ were Congressman Alan Grayson is his hero!
In his belief, unions can buy elections as we have seen in Wisconsin in the past year, but corporations can't.
This is muttmutt's belief and this is what I exposed on him. He doesn't want to explain himself because he is at least smart enough to know he is not in a forum that best supports his beliefs.
He says he wants to debate, well, to debate you have to know the people you are talking with. He knows we are right because anytime we point out the facts, he just retorts with another tale. These tales are something you expect from a 10 year old. Shows you the depths on how our public school system has failed us. Instead of our schools teaching creative and critical thinking, they teach them how they need someone else to manage their lives.
In the masses blog, one wrote "Think about how the Walker administration has tried to control the will of the people." Tell us muttmutt, how has Walker tried to control the will of the people, he gave more power to the workers and allowed them to choose if they want to be in a union. It is interesting that more than 50% actually opted out of their unions. Obviously your own side disagrees with you. What you hate is you cannot force people into a mandatory service. Another example of your like of socialism. You hate one to have rights, but to be controlled and regulated.
You picked a good name for yourself muttmutt. Like a dog that needs to depend on a master. Lenin called you guys right, useful idiots.
You should look up what happens to you useful idiots when socialism turns into communism. Look it up, communism killed more people in the 20th century in peace time than any century combined. And they always start with the useful idiots who betrayed their governments.
Here is your chance to debate! That is what you came here for! I had to explain who you are because you failed to do so, like a lefty always needs someone else to do it for you. Now we know where you come from and what you believe (not what many here believe) lets see you stand up for your beliefs if you truly believe in them, run away with your tail between your legs or are you going to have someone else do it for you?
keithh1981: "This is muttmutt's belief and this is what I exposed on him. He doesn't want to explain himself because he is at least smart enough to know he is not in a forum that best supports his beliefs."
Yes, hidden in plain sight in my profile. Damn, you figured me out... What a smart guy you are...
I don't owe you anything, friend. You get nothing. No debate, not one single word until you learn the meaning of the term "straw man."
Here is a classic example of you using a "straw man" argument:
"The problem today, you lefties think raising taxes alone with fix everything and when that doesn't work you compound your error with more regulations that in the end are aimed at costing the private sector 100 times more to the government, and leaving the customers bone dry."
When you try to tell me what I think (let alone the entire progressive movement), you are simply arguing with the voices in your head. You then proceed on a fact-free rant about what the voices in your head are saying. No data, no evidence, just bloviation. I'm not going to have an "argument" with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about and has no data to back up what he says.
You want to argue with me? Pick out a specific thing I've said and argue against that. Or is that to hard? I understand not everyone is good at research, even in the age of Google, perhaps you are one of those people. Research takes time and effort.
When you can form a coherent argument based on some form of sound reasoning and not on the ad hominem and invective you seem to enjoy, then I will have a discussion with you. Until that time, I'll be ignoring you.
You have ample examples of my positions, and you actually missed the place where I do most of my blogging these days, a place called Blogging Blue.
When you can posit an affirmative position on an issue, or a coherent rebuttal of one of mine, then we can chat.
Until then... be quiet and let the adults have a conversation.
You don't just owe me, but owe everybody here you wasted of our time. You come here to debate yet you refuse to acknowledge your own profile or beliefs, which in turn tie in with your arguments for higher taxation and your wild belief that the United States is largely liberal and likes regulation.
Until you can explain yourself, I agree that you should allow the adults to have this discussion. Adults are able and capable of answering direct questions and not running away because you are too afraid to acknowledge your own beliefs.
You can continue to run away from the discussion, something you lefties are good at.
Your own beliefs are imputed in your profile by you. How about owning your own beliefs not making excuses.
We would like a coherent response of answering like an adult and explaining why such a big government philosophy is in a forum that is tailored to limited government philosophy yet cannot even defend your own positions. A coherent response is not running away by the way. Anybody who likes former congressman from Florida Alan Grayson is a blind fool in many of our opinions here.
Did you hear that? I thought I heard something... Something buzzing around like a big horsefly... Oh well, must have been the wind.
Still running...I thought so. Must be that big government taxation you believe in.
Muttmutt: Socialism usually starts small (like with government pushing through a few regulations, always in the name of "helping the people", or saving the environment to make life safer or better for everyone (sounds so nice, doesn't it?). No one is advocating absolutely no regulations, but a government unfettered that thinks the constitution is a meaningless, out of date document, is certainly a government that thinks it is the solution to everyting that ails us, and fully understands the necessary steps in the march towards socialism. Telling us what to eat, what kind of light bulbs to use, where companies can locate new plants (i.e. the NLRB and Boeing), the EPA jamming regulations down our throats and on and on gradually moves towards the control you suggest. I would suggest you read a couple books to understand that the nature of government totalitariznism taking hold is insidious in nature. Just a little bit at a time until we wake up one day and wonder what happened. I would suggest you read a couple books to understand this reality: Atlas Shrugged, and The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek. You, young man, might learn something that you apparently are not aware of...but may not care to face.
Remember Obama hinself already came out and said the constitution is a charter of negative liberties. I didn't know the freedom of speech, assembly, bear arms etc are negatives. I know Obama and the likes of him like to control things. He recently came out and said he wants to shrink the government to make it more efficient which we all like to hear however he added afterwords he wants more complete and total control given to his office. There are reasons why we have these checks and balances but Obama is working hard to undermine them.
Remember Obama hinself already came out and said the constitution is a charter of negative liberties. I didn't know the freedom of speech, assembly, bear arms etc are negatives. I know Obama and the likes of him like to control things. He recently came out and said he wants to shrink the government to make it more efficient which we all like to hear however he added afterwords he wants more complete and total control given to his office. There are reasons why we have these checks and balances but Obama is working hard to undermine them.
keithh1981: A libertarian who doesn't know the meaning of the word "liberty?" Wow...
"I didn't know the freedom of speech, assembly, bear arms etc are negatives."
"Negative liberty" does not mean that something is a negative as in bad, "negative liberty" refers to a "free and clear to navigate" form of liberty.
"Negative liberty is the absence of obstacles, barriers or constraints. One has negative liberty to the extent that actions are available to one in this negative sense. Positive liberty is the possibility of acting — or the fact of acting — in such a way as to take control of one's life and realize one's fundamental purposes. While negative liberty is usually attributed to individual agents, positive liberty is sometimes attributed to collectivities, or to individuals considered primarily as members of given collectivities."
It was a concept developed as early as Hobbes, but the differentiation between positive and negative liberty was articulated by Hegel (Marx's strongest influence, BTW).
The concepts of Negative and Positive Liberty were best articulated by philosopher, Isaiah Berlin in 1958 in his essay "Two Concepts of Liberty."
I'd think you'd be pleased at Obama, our Constitutional Law Scholar President as asserting a negative liberty view of the Constitution.
But then you'd have to know what negative liberty means.
And you don't.
Hence your confusion.
Steverino: Once again, slippery slope arguments are slippery. They're not convincing in the slightest.
"Socialism usually starts small (like with government pushing through a few regulations, always in the name of "helping the people", or saving the environment to make life safer or better for everyone (sounds so nice, doesn't it?)."
Really? Where did it happen like this? Cite me one country where this was the path to a socialist government. All the examples I can think of were the result of a rapid revolutionary process (Russia, North Korea, Cuba) or an imposition by external force (eastern Europe, Angola).
"No one is advocating absolutely no regulations, but a government unfettered that thinks the constitution is a meaningless, out of date document, is certainly a government that thinks it is the solution to everyting that ails us, and fully understands the necessary steps in the march towards socialism."
Again, you're arguing with a straw man here. Nowhere did I (or anyone I know) say that government is the "solution to everything that ails us." That's a meaningless position and certainly not one I've advocated.
"Telling us what to eat, what kind of light bulbs to use, where companies can locate new plants (i.e. the NLRB and Boeing), the EPA jamming regulations down our throats and on and on gradually moves towards the control you suggest."
Let's take the FDA for an example here. They don't tell you what to eat, they make sure what you eat is safe. They make recommendations about what is healthy based on the science of nutrition. And they prohibit harmful products from staying on the market. Is that a bad thing?
As for the NLRB, you and I could go around and around on labor law, I suspect neither of us are experts so I will leave that for another day.
And, for the record, the lightbulb thing was signed into law by GW Bush and came from a Republican controlled congress... But that may not be important to you. I guess if that's the scope of your complaints about the intrusions on liberty, you don't have much to complain about.
"I would suggest you read a couple books to understand that the nature of government totalitariznism taking hold is insidious in nature."
I agree. The fusion of corporations with government is a dangerous trend in recent years. Government needs to shake off the shackles of the corporatocracy.
"Just a little bit at a time until we wake up one day and wonder what happened."
That day was when George Bush got re-elected.
"I would suggest you read a couple books to understand this reality: Atlas Shrugged, and The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek."
Ayn Rand... Wow... Really? I think Corey Robin has the best quote about Ayn Rand:
“Saint Petersburg in revolt gave us Vladamir Nabokov, Isaiah Berlin, and Ayn Rand. The first was a novelist, the second philosopher. The third was neither but thought she was both.”
I've read Atlas Shrugged and laughed my ass off. It was interesting when I was 14, but I grew out of it. It's a joke... She's a joke...
Hayek, on the other hand, is not a joke and I have read his work. I simply find his work fanciful. Any economic theory that is based on human "rationality" is broken on it's face. Everything built up from there is simply wrong.
"You, young man, might learn something that you apparently are not aware of...but may not care to face."
There are many things I know, and far more that I don't. That's why I enjoy poking around at Dr. Tim's place. You never know what you might find.
Wow, again you fail to understand reality. It is one thing to read a bunch of philosophers and neglect to look at his actions. Obama is nothing but a community organizer with no real world experience. The very reason he is over his head.
Major officials at Harvard even said he was a idiot who offered nothing of real value, he didn't even finish his class properly by writing an essay which all students are required.
Again you acknowledge you big government beliefs and love for Obama. Anybody with any real insight on economics knows Obama is killing this country, his own party was even debating to have a democratic primary because they know he he is screwing the pooch. The Democrats are about to lose the senate in the 2012 elections mainly because of him, Pepsi and Reid.
Anybody who believes in our country doesn't think of our constitution as negative liberties. You only hear that from the socialist democrats. They and you can twist it how many times you want, but there is only such a thing as natural and positive liberties. Natural liberties is what our government is only responsible for in our constitution. That is why Obama says it is negative. Positive liberties are legislative rights, like collective bargaining, health care, education, etc. You know the rights that our government really isn't responsible for. Your socialist democrats hate that because without positive to exploit they cannot truly exercise more power. Also goes with their philosophy, they do not think you are smart enough to be your own man and manage your own life.
Obviously you muttmutt cannot manage your own license a guy like Obama is intriguing to you. You need and want government to pay and dictate your life. If Obama was a true leader he would encourage everybody to go through life like he did. He might have been just a community organizer but he was also a hard worker. Obama and Clinton both came from poor backgrounds but never used government to get ahead. Yet now they are in power they want to magically give you a helping hand.
Benjamin Franklin once said he traveled the world and saw how different governments handled their poor. The more government does for their poor, the less the poor does for themselves and becomes dependant. The less the government does for the poor, the more the poor does for themselves and becomes more wealthier. Remember this was 200 years ago. Do you really see all the poor getting these hand outs really improving or Declining? They are actually declining and now rioting with the wall street occupy crowd complaining how people who have money are living comfortably and not them. Duh.
It is called accountability and responsibility and when people get used to government interaction, they lose that. I do not expect you to understand that even though Obama and Clinton are both proof of that.
Muttmutt how about you look at Russia, Germany and Italy in Wold war 2. You obviously do not have a great grasp of reality. It is ok though, that is your right and I hope this country will have enough money to support your ignorance for many years. It is amazing how you rely on others for opinion and always quote someone else for the words you rely on. That just proves you are not an independent person and the very person we thought you are. You do not even know history or economics because if you did you would see the problem with our big government. You can read all the philosphers you want but you are never going to get anything from them unless you apply reality in your life. A lot of people like yourself prefer to stay ignorant of reality because it is just easier to do so.
muttmutt: Rand is a joke if you believe in the state over the individual, and Hayek is fanciful if you think it couldn't happen here. To quote what I imagine who would be one of your idols: "We were the first to assert that the more complicated the forms assumed by civilization, the more restricted (i.e. regulated in your vernacular) the freedom of the individual must become...Benito Mussolini".
Oh no muttmutt that lightbulb was signed by Obama and he did that to help his campaign friends namely GE. You are pulling all the stops to defend Obama Uh? I believe you think Solindra isn't his fault also!
keithh1981: "Oh no muttmutt that lightbulb was signed by Obama and he did that to help his campaign friends namely GE."
It took 17 seconds of Google searching to prove you wrong (again). Is it really so hard to check your facts?
"The initial version[31] of H.R. 6 passed the House of Representatives on January 18, 2007, by a vote of 264 to 163. The Senate version[32] passed 65-27 on June 21, but bore almost no resemblance to the original bill. Speaker Pelosi indicated on Oct 10 that instead of sending the bill to a conference committee, the House would negotiate informally with the Senate to resolve their differences.[33]
The House took up the energy bill again in December, passing a new version on December 6. This version, renamed the "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007", restored the oil industry tax increases of the original bill. It also added a requirement that U.S. electric utilities must obtain 15 percent of their power from renewable sources by 2020.[34][35][36]
When this bill was introduced to the Senate, the new provisions became the focus of debate. The White House and Sen. Domenici warned that Bush would veto the bill because of the tax portion. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Democrats had "shown how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" by "inserting an enormous tax hike, a tax hike they knew would doom this legislation." Reid said Congress should not be intimidated by a veto threat, "We are the Congress of the United States. We can write things even though the president may not like them." Democrats said that the tax measure was modest and only took back tax breaks the oil companies received in 2004 and that they did not need them with oil prices at about $90 a barrel.[37]
The House version of the bill (with $13 billion raised from the oil industry, a mandate that utilities rely on renewable energy for at least 15 percent of their power generation, and a $21.8 billion 10-year tax package) failed by a one vote margin. A final attempt to end debate and make way for a vote failed by 59 - 40 despite the return of four Democratic presidential candidates, Hillary Clinton (NY), Barack Obama (Ill.), Christopher Dodd (Conn.), and Joseph Biden (Del.). Nine Republicans voted in favor of ending debate while one Democrat, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) voted against it. Sen. John McCain was not present.[37]
The revised Senate bill passed 86-8 on December 13. The House approved this final version 314-100 on December 18, and President Bush signed it the following day."
God DAMN but you're stupid. Jesus...
Mutt Mutt, You object to the USPS recognizing the future liabilities of healthcare costs, yet Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) require all publicly traded companies to record liabilities like the PAEA of 2006. You call it the poison pill that destroyed the USPS profitability. Yet, Walmart and IBM (all publicly traded co.) don't cry "poison pill" because they have been required to report these liabilities for DECADES. Yes, only in 2006 was the playing field leveled to recognize the failure of the USPS. If only all Government Supported Enterprises known as GSE's were required to report future liabilities then we would have a much bleaker view of our government deficit situation.
Thanks for pointing out that USPS had preferential treatment until 2006.
Oh I was wrong. It was a Bush law. I apologize for my error. Just shows Obama is just continuing the failed policies of Bush only on a faster scale.
By the way, until you learn the difference between reality and fantasy in your big government beliefs, you should't criticise one error which is just human nature. Only if your human nature would be responsible enough to explain your big government beliefs which I rightfully exposed. Why you come here for a supposed different view if all you do is laugh because it requires you to think for yourself, be self-reliant and be your own man. Isn't it amazing how Clinton and Obama grew up in poor backgrounds yet never let that stop them? Yet now they want to tell their sheep like you you cannot do it without them. Show me in the dictionary where that is termed leadership. Is that what the President of the United States supposed to be? Is that not what Obama campaigned on?
Gayle M: "You object to the USPS recognizing the future liabilities of healthcare costs..."
Ummm, no, I don't. I never said that. I never said anything even remotely like that. In fact, what I said was precisely the opposite of what you claim I said.
"The question isn't whether the USPS should have to fund their pension & healthcare adequately, they should. Like any public or private enterprise that makes a commitment to it's employees, the resources should be there when they're needed."
What I DO object to is the Congress singling out the USPS for a scheme which was designed, from the beginning, to induce a fiscal crisis in the post office. Go back and read what I wrote and the links I provided.
5,4,3,2,1....TIME! Ok, boys - that's enough now on this post. Everyone knows where everyone stands and nobody is going to convince anybody so is time to shut this thread down. Beat regards, Tim
keithh1981: "Only if your human nature would be responsible enough to explain your big government beliefs which I rightfully exposed."
Really? Where? I didn't see any links to anything I've specifically written, only vague pointers to my entire corpus of work on The Masses. Have you actually READ any of the posts?
Here's a homework assignment for you. Pick a post, any post, identify a specific idea to which you object and make an argument as to why you object to it. Do the research. Make your case. Don't just pretend that you've done anything more than general hand waving and leering. You haven't.
Dr. Tim: "5,4,3,2,1....TIME! Ok, boys - that's enough now on this post. Everyone knows where everyone stands and nobody is going to convince anybody so is time to shut this thread down. Beat regards, Tim"
Awwww, Dad.... It was just getting GOOD!!!!
:-)
Wow, you are really full of it muttmutt. Oh well, ignorance is the mind of the lefty.
With that I am done, cannot wait to read your next post Tim.
Thank you so much for your amazing article. You are absolutely right. I can't stand when people say they are against capitalism because it isn't fair, e.g., some people win and others lose. It's the best economic system in the world because it gives everyone the same chance to succeed. And it creates more wealth than any government ever could. Thank you for standing up for what is right.
This is so right on! Keep it up!
Regards, Dan
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